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  • Since you are a little confused in antagonism levels and yet you did admit it on the Pryde topic I will give you a little help. First of all, this is NOT villains wiki or antagonists wiki. Second, technically Hux and Pryde both had bigger ambitions than Ren so that makes them more or less higher antagonists. Hux was the direct threat and the true main villain until Palpatine and Pryde took over. Ren was an anti-hero and was not even an antagonist of The Rise of Skywalker, since he was rather a conflicted teenager without moral or ambition.

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    • Lizardnut101
      Lizardnut101 removed this reply because:
      Will not spread info i don't know if true.
      07:17, March 13, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Here we go again. The never-ending back-and-forth about who is more of an antagonist than someone else.

      Let me ask both of you this: if you were to talk about who your friends are with someone you just met, would you describe them in terms like:

      • "the former-maybe bully who is now my tertiary friend"
      • "Joe is my best friend because he has bigger plans than Steve about how to be my friend"?
      • "Stacy serves as my second-best friend"
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    • Lizardnut101
      Lizardnut101 removed this reply because:
      This sounds stupid.
      04:27, December 28, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • It's helpful to people trying to do book or movie reports that ask who the main antagonist, or the deutragonist of the story is or whether they were hidden or redeemed etc. I have to do alot of those.

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    • A wiki can be a starting point for something like that but it couldn't be an official source. You could write a report about Kylo Ren from the basis of him being the main antagonist of The Force Awakens and by the time you turned it in, the page could say he's the secondary antagonist. Your source of information changed from underneath you.

      But that doesn't change the fact that these labels are opinions. You ask ten people what kind of antagonist he is and you'll get up to ten different levels. Sometimes the same person changes their mind, as you have.

      In five days, you've said he is the following:

      1. the anti-hero of the sequel trilogy, appearing as the main antagonist of TFA, TLJ and he progressivly became the deuteragonist of TROS.
      2. the anti-hero of the sequel trilogy, appearing as the main antagonist of TFA, TLJ and the secondary antagonist-turned-deutragonist of TROS.
      3. the (former) secondary antagonist anti-hero of the sequel trilogy, appearing as the main antagonist of TFA, TLJ and the secondary antagonist-turned-deutragonist of TROS.
      4. the (former) secondary antagonist anti-hero of the sequel trilogy, appearing as the main antagonist of TFA, TLJ, and the tertiary antagonist-turned-deutragonist of TROS.

      You changed it to #3 one minute after you made it be #2, and then five minutes later, you changed it from #3 to #4.

      Which one is he? Do you even know? Why did you change it three times in just six minutes? Anyone that might be trying to write a report about him would look at your edits and conclude they are unreliable because you can't make up your mind.

      That is the whole problem with antagonist fussing. It isn't just that if you ask several people you'll get several answers. It's the people that are doing this can't make up their mind and stick with it. They change it just to change it, as proved by how little time passes between each change. They argue and squabble with others about how their rigidly-defined label is correct at that moment, only to argue and squabble on a different day how their new rigidly-defined label for that same character is now correct. And then they pick something different or flip-flop back to what they said before.

      The words people use are also contradictory. Sometimes deuteragonist means "there are two equally-important good guys" and sometimes it means "this is a second-level good guy". Then you stick "tertiary" in front of it and the meanings change to "there were two-equally important good guys but this one is less important" or "this is a character who is less important than other second-most-important characters".


      Antagonist and protagonist labels have become USELESS because of this. They lead to fights and edit wars. Time is wasted trying to push each person's rigidly-defined level, including times when they contradict themselves, and the other 99% of what makes that character a person is ignored.

      It's going to stop.

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    • A FANDOM user
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